The real CO2 emissions disaster of jobs to China.

I have mentioned in the past, the United States of China has done a much better job for their people economically than has the United States of America.

But, when they took American jobs, freely given to them under NAFTA, China began producing enormous amounts of CO2 emissions, and raw pollution.

Someone on a forum called my statement about China producing more CO2 than the US, and that outsourcing costing the US tax revenue, ‘infantile.’

Some people are easily confused with the facts, and like ‘Joe Friday’ used to say, “Just the facts.” *

The following was my response, and I did not even mention the rest of Asia, or include India in the comparison.

“Well, you can attack the truth, or you can attack the author.

You could have seemed more intelligent and unbiased had you attacked the data ……

So, you really believe outsourcing American economic might (jobs – manufacturing) to China did not outsource

TAXES?

And you believe CO2 emissions in China were not increased? You believe they have strict pollution controls compared to the strict controls in the USA?

See how much easier it was for me to attack your claim?

If you want more data: China is one half to one third the US economy (http://www.heritage.org/research/rep…hich-is-better), but they produce 40% more carbon (http://www.theguardian.com/news/data…-data-co2#data) ….. effectively, almost 3x the carbon output for the same size economic engine …..

If you had remained silent, I could not have removed all doubt …..”

* Joe Friday was a character on the hit TV show Dragnet.

Now that we ignited the massive production of CO2 in Asia, can we get the threat of global warming under control? Notice I wrote threat, because global warming leveled off 15 years ago. (http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/2013/01/global-warming-leveling-off.html ).

Wayne

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About Wayne

First, I blogged on blogger, then Myspace - soon I was consistently ranked. Next, I quit. Then the blogging addiction came back .... Comments are appreciated. Not nice comments are edited. You can follow me at the top right.
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9 Responses to The real CO2 emissions disaster of jobs to China.

  1. Meself says:

    Ok, first off, the link to how China’s economy is just 1/3 of the US economy is dead. That is mostly due to the fact that that information is old anyway. The unspoken fact is that China has already stomped up us economy, two years ago. The only reason why the numbers do not add up is because the salaries in China are, as unbelievable as it may seem, lower than those in US. If you look at the productive capacity, China is at least twice as big as US. The other numerical coefficient is the prices of products produced and either exported or sold on domestic market. With prices 40% lower than those in the US, it is easy to see how China’s economy could be manipulated by evil imperialists to seem “smaller”.

    In terms of raw numbers, number of items produced per industry, China beats US hands, pants and shirt down. That is why US and EU want China to make yuan convertible. It would automatically make Chinese industry un-competitive by being expensive. Naturally, that is exactly why Chinese have no intention to make the capitalists happy and make yuan convertible (“correct” its value).

    Second, it is always easier to find a class enemy and blame it for all your woes. No one forced the US companies to rush to China and start buying/producing everything there. Most certainly China did not do that. So to blame China for the inevitable demise of capitalism, and US as a consequence, is pretty ignorant thing to do.

    Thing is, you can;t have that US bullshit how US is the “land of opportunity” where “hard work is rewarded” when average salary is 7-8 dollars /hour, and if you are a hospitality worker, you are on $2.19/hour. US is, contrary to their/your own bull propaganda, just another third world country where hard work is NOT appreciated and people survive not working hard work but collecting food coupons handed out by the government.

    And that your medical care is not just a joke but a shameful yet accurate reflection of the real state of US “free enterprise”/capitalism disaster, is not something one party or the other is to blame for. There’s no discerning difference between the two parties in the US, so they are really both guilty for it. And everyone who voted for either of the two incompetent parties.

    • Wayne says:

      Thank you for your comment!

      I would like to point out, the middle salary in the US is $24/hour.

      And President Clinton did sign NAFTA and business did relocate because of NAFTA.

      Thanks again,

      Wayne

  2. guy says:

    No, I dont agree, firstly everyone is not unemployed of course, many modern western countries do however have 10-25 percent unemployment now, particularly amongst the younger people -increasing levels of people are semi employed, under employed etc, what I am pointing to is the change since the 80s in who holds the wealth, the reducing of traditionally large western middle classes with a small amount of very rich and very poor to the new situation of very large numbers of people living between the lower middle class to below poverty line level and the increase in the numbers of extremely wealthy people, which there is in my experience a growing intolerance of, in fact outside of america these polarities have always been seen as unattractive, often in european populations outside of the us if you are very wealthy you didnt want people to know as it excludes you from the community to a degree, as does being poor obviously.
    What I see happening is an international shift away from support of the political and economic systems as currently set up, I see a time upon us now where those that are currently unengaged politically become energized through an international grass roots movement facilitated by technology echoing in many ways the so called arab spring (which was motivated largely by price rises rather than the often reported aspiration to democracy), I see it as being relatively bloodless, certainly not war though you may have the national gaurd out in the streets for a few weeks (as you did in 67 or 68 was it? ) and no doubt hearts will be broken and blood and tears will be shed, as the present order tries to hold onto power using any means at their disposal. very quickly I see a new political use of democracy where people vote in historically new parties with a very different set of loyalties to those today that support corporations first and people second, and I see a terrific unity coming amongst people of the west, that american phrase coms to mind of people who have taken their power back. But there is great suffering in our countries now amongst large sections of us and its not acceptable, as will be shown. Thanks for the exchange and take care.

    • Wayne says:

      Ironically, I think we agree more than we disagree.

      However, I do not think a bloodless coup will change the status quo.

      The party of VIetnam, the KKK, segregation, anti-civil-rights has spent 50 years using propaganda to take over US politics. And I doubt they will go quietly.

      I don’t think it will be in 4 years – the Arab Spring activists were trained in NYC – and I do not see the Democrats training people to overthrow them.

      But, I can see it in the next decade or two. And I think it will be violent. Once the tipping point is reached, the masses will think they have little to lose.

      But, war always has losers.

      Thank you for the comments!

      Wayne

  3. Pingback: Can we save America? | luvsiesous

  4. guy says:

    far as I can see what you’re talking about is really in Fact a dead issue, outside of some very small steps, often steps taken by indiviuals such as recycling and some new taxes, which dont really address the issues, no country of any substantive size has shown the remotest interest in redefining the future as anything other than a global environmental catastrophe, its pure sophistry to imagine that co2 emissions in china are anything other than global cvost of doing business emissions. The american leadership on this issue like almost every other modern issue is nonexistant. The main point you made that had merit I think, that is worthy of looking at in more depth is that China has served its population through its leadership, in the west over and over we are seeing the results of the reagan era policies that came out of such places as the chicago school of economics- serving elites, detroying the collective wealth of populations through asset sales- attacking unions and workers preotections and driving down wages by promoting structural unemployment as a positive factor. The breaking down of large inclusive middle class societies and replacing them with elitist social frameworks which have a largish section of very wealthy and sections of society condemned to poverty line incomes that will most likely be intergenerational. What have we in the west got right in the last 25 years, well countries such as the uk under the influence of modern economic theorythat has come out of america, very little, in fact the nordic countries seem to be the last bastion of the european and european pacific countries traditional ideas of governments that serve their people, rather than rob them. Lets face it, americas dead- the uk is dead, southern europe, new zealand all those countries subject to imf influence have their assets sold and their traditional middles classes diminished to the point their cohesive societies cannot maintain traditional cultural norms.
    Lets talk about what happens next, because within four years or so we’re either going to have a worldwide systemic change in the west, or we are going to have very dangerous societies indeed.

    • Wayne says:

      Thank you for your comment.

      I followed what you wrote, but blaming Reagan for what the Democrats did to America is just a fancy slight of magical hand work.

      The Democrats brought in Socialism and replaced hard work as a way to get ahead in America with Welfare. Welfare has put more people back into poverty. Now US is at the same levels of poverty as we were before the Great Experiment.

      Another thing the Chinese did America does not, when China experiments and the experiment fails – they try something DIFFERENT.

      So, they moved to capitalistic production (WORK) and have moved several hundred million out of poverty (greater than the US population). Sadly, they have much greater separation between the elite and the poor, and they have

      MUCH greater pollution, because they do not have Western laws preventing the pollution ….. and that pollution is COSTING the ENTIRE world ….

      Thank you Guy, you made me work a little!

      Wayne

      • guy says:

        hey wayne, i believe I said reagan era, I was referring to a time frame, I could have as easily said the period following the collapse of the soviet union and the resulting expansion of american hegemony,I am not blaming the democrats or the republicans, I am blaming a bankrupt globalised system run by elites for elites with American leadership, theres no difference (between republican or democrat) in the robust ignoring of the timeframes and the not facilitating the neccesary levels of global cooperation needed to change a system that is now guaranteed to, as science tells us devastate the conditions on earth that we have had for 120 000 years.
        The pollution output of china is caused by the entire worlds consumption, particularly western consumption, in theory effective laws could be made against taking part in the trade, from your point of veiw such trade is morally bankrupt, I assume from your statements.
        The facts are there is no political will to deal with the issue of climate change, windowdressing aside. The peicemeal efforts are not only ineffective, any substantitive action is already too late to stave off radically destructive change to the ecosystems as they are currently configured on earth, the window of opportunity has already been missed, science tells us this.
        This problem is intractable, the powers that be have clearly shown their unfitness to rule based on (amongst many other pointers) their inability to have responded to this challenge in the time frame and manner neccesary. The tradgedy to come will surpass by any reasonable estimate all the human tradgedies, wars famines plagues, on human record combined. In fact “biblical proportions” often, used as an epithet for human (and it isnt just human of course) suffering in the past is absolutely understating the crisis we are witnessing the dawn of. And if you have any doubts about any of these points, science has already been able to define many of the coming changes and these are easily researchable by someone with your level of wealth and literacy.

        Now lets move on to what I said and why I said it, I beleive I have qualified my statement climate change is a dead issue, its a fact, its not currently addressable in the current political climate (sorry) of political partisanship sponsered by elites pretending democracy has something to offer, in America democracy as representitive and effective govt has failed, in much of europe its failed, in the south pacific its failed.
        Where has it suceeded, in countries, especailly the nordic countries, where high taxes and a large inclusive middle class are the norm. Why?, well you go there, you can find out that out yourself, read the reports from the world health organistion, look at the overall standard of living, the levels of education, the way minorities are treated, the markers that are important for people, for families, for a civil functional society are the sure signs of success, you can say this is opinion, its opinion that is backed up by facts and its very important, because in the future we may need to learn from the countries that got it right.

        The massive disparity of wealth in the western world alone is about to visit upon us an opportunity, if this opportunity is succesfully grasped we may be able to solve some of the issues around climate change, it is still too late but being able to act on these problems cooperatively and cohesively will be put us in a much better position to deal with the coming problems from the consequences we will face together as a race, in this case the whole human race and all life on earth.
        What has recently happened with wealth centralizing and “becoming locked up” has happened numerous times before in our history, the situation always has the same outcome, radical change, the reasons are not complicated. In our economic system we have two roles, to be productive and to consume, as larger and larger numbers of people become unable to afford consumption production falls off and we are left with ever greater numbers of people unable to consume because they are not receiving an income from producing leading to greater decline in productivity until you have a situation of radical reorganization or unsustainable oppression. It looks pretty different when you live in your car and can afford to feed yourself from your job even though you cant afford to pay rent on your wages, to when you cant afford to feed your kids properly and no one that you know can either.

        I personally think we will be lucky, I beleive that as the capitalist systems that are corrupt and dysfunctional such as the banks break down over and over and fail to serve families and communities, as political elites pretend they will (or even can) do anything start to be seen through, its pretty easy when everyone you know is unemployed and theyre all hard working, decent people.
        As production fails, and your part in your society become increasingly redundant, we will across the western world reorient ourselves, radically and quickly, to the things that are important to us, family security-including food health care, housing, education, I can tell you I travel a lot, this isnt coming in 20 years, this is the next 4 years. If you dont talk about whats real, whats important, what huge suffering is being experienced by your very own people, who are you serving. I think you should be working a lot harder.

      • Wayne says:

        Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your viewpoints.

        First, I was crippled by government healthcare, so, I for one know it is evil and not security – look up iatrogenesis.

        Second, I travel. And I do not see “everyone I know as being unemployed.”

        Thirdly, global warming occurred for centuries before ozone and then CO2 were blamed. Not sure how that is supposed to work out, but scientists are conflicted as to why global warming stopped 15 years ago, so now they call it ‘climate change.’

        Lastly, I think you are right, it will take a radical step to realign everything. That is usually war, and only the rich get richer during wars …..

        Do you agree?

        wayne

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