Friends,
I was asked what giving Gays more rights would take from me.
Well, some have already been taken. But, let us look at my rights taken by the Gay Agenda.
Religious Freedom. My religion is denied.
Innocence. I have been harassed. I thank God the homosexuals have only harassed. I cannot imagine what people go through who are raped.
Taxes. I pay more to support the agenda.
Safety. As the plague grows, there will be more and more violence.
Family. The agenda is trying to re-define family from its historic and religious roots.
Women. As a single man. The gay agenda is taking more and more women.
Children. Gays initiate more and more children into their agenda.
And now we are told this is the way it should be.
Should it be that way?
Wayne
luvsiesous 
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Well, it only took 18 comments, but we finally have some idea of where you’re getting your ideas from. First of, the very nature of science demands that it challenge the well-known truths we’ve had for years and years. These truths are tested again and again by new generations as new technology and cultural behaviors arise. Calling something a “pseudo-science” just because you don’t agree with the findings makes you as ignorant as the Church when they refused to believe that the Earth was not the center of the universe or my friend who still clings on to the belief that Pluto is a planet. Science evolves, takes new data, and reforms its conclusions accordingly. Religion remains steadfast in its devotion to fairy tales until its followers finally give in and make a museum with Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs.
Now onto your sources. I can’t say I’m surprised that all of your studies come from unapologetically biased religious organizations. Dr. Cameron (who strangely enough has a son Kirk Cameron who isn’t THE Kirk Cameron) was excommunicated from the American Psychological Association and American Sociological Association back in 80s for misrepresenting research. I didn’t get to read through all of his propaganda on the FRI website, but I was struck by his assertion that less than half of all pedophiles were homosexual, which would seem to put some of your fears at ease. The Focus on the Family books of course all reference the Bible, which hasn’t had a proper peer-review in 2,000 years. As for those brave Ugandans, the government is killing its citizens who are suspected of being gay. You might want to back down on defending government-sanctioned murder while espousing your Christian beliefs.
You’re entitled to your own religious beliefs, but so am I. Your beliefs aren’t attacked by science, they are refuted. Just as many Christians eventually conceded that the Earth is older than 6,000 years, snakes never talked or had legs, and the great flood was an allegory for . . . something, they too must one day admit that homosexuality is as natural as left-handedness. Your use of the word “attacked” trivializes the real physical (and fatal) attacks that gays endure all over the world. Protecting children is not just an idea upheld by your religion. The United States justice system, along with countless atheists and gays, agree that all pedophiles should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Wow, I spent a lot of time on this one. I realize we’ll probably never see eye to eye on this, but I once again thank you for your continued civility in this intense debate. This is usually the part of conversation where the blogger bans me from their site or accuses me of being gay myself.
You got me laughing. I have been called gay as well, but it was always by homosexuals.
Oh well, as for the Bible.
Snakes lost their legs. “Whichever evolutionary path snakes took — by land or by sea — snakes lost their legs.”
The advantages of studying Science.
USAToday article.
Science has confirmed more Biblical beliefs in the last 40 years that any sane person should ignore. Soon, Science will answer the gay issue. But, will the pseudo-scientific myth of the last century ever be removed from our culture?
The DSM IV, the last ten years of genetic and psychological research on this subject, and my own “interviews” with multiple psychologists says you’re full of it. I’ll ask you once more to show me the proof, any proof from any scientific study published within the last 20 years (hell, I’d even accept a “study” from the religious zealots at Focus on the Family at this point).
Joe,
I appreciate your comments, and I respect that we will probably continue to disagree.
This is what happens when “ten” years of pseudo-‘science’ throws out 150 years of Science.
First, you wanted Science. Then it was not recent enough of not ‘peer reviewed.’ Now you will settle for anything. I am trying to find the document I had found online, it is on my PC. That means setting up my PC. Which for me now is work. So that will take a little while.
We disagree.
Back to culture. The culture of psychology has changed.
I supported the ‘twins study.’ How many of your ‘interviews’ were at that level to the neo-culture?
OK, here is what I can re-find online: http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/pro-gay-bias-in-study-of-pedophilia/
Here is an article stating Cameron’s research is solid, just not solid enough: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_journals.html
Here is an article showing that many countries are REFUSING to bow down to the pseudo-science: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15524013
And they are punished for it.
Focus on the Family: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/topicinfo/Homosexuality_Resources.pdf
For a 1 to 4% population this is a lot of offenses: http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/are-over-a-third-of-foster-parent-molestations-homosexual/
Now back to what I believe …. what I believe is based upon my RELIGION. Why is my belief attacked by PSEUDO-science, and then I have to defend what I BELIEVE?
That is a HUGE change from just 10 years ago.
And as I have stated, I would be willing to support CIVIL laws supporting same sex couples, in EXCHANGE for guarantees protecting children.
Why is it so difficult to protect children?
Protecting children is part of my Religion as well.
I will continue to search for scientific studies, but I think you already know that is difficult. The Gay Agenda attacks any study they do not consider pro-Gay.
Wayne
I’ll ask again — Where are the facts? At show me some science behind your agenda.
Joe,
Do you really believe there are no homosexual pedophiles?
What ‘science’ would change that?
Wayne
As I mentioned more than once already, there are homosexual pedophiles, just as there are heterosexual pedophiles. Now please show me any study that suggests homosexuals are significantly more likely to abuse children.
That depends upon which study you look at.
There are ‘studies’ which show both sides.
But, start with Kinsey and his report on male sexuality, A quick look at DSM3 compared with DSM4 will reveal some interesting twists in the whole discussion.
All studies I am aware off show that there are ‘more’ heterosexual offenders, but each homosexual ‘offender’ commits about 20 times as many assaults.
Focus on the Family has good studies available.
As I mentioned, one of my sources was an interview with a psychologist.
Another source would be many news reports over the years.
It is not an easy subject to study.
Wayne
I never said anyone should feel “fear” around gays, but I am glad to see we’re finally getting on the same page here. And since you do apparently have gay friends, I again implore you to try to have a real conversation with them if you haven’t already. Ask them when they first decided to become gay. Ask them why they enjoy abusing children so much. If they don’t immediately laugh in your face or punch you in the nose, you might just realize that homosexuals are born homosexuals and aren’t all child molesters.
As I mentioned before, religion happens to be very important to many gays as well. Even the Mormon Church, one of the most vocal religious groups against gays, is starting to understand this and soften their opposition ( http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/17/gay-rights-activists-see-mormons-softening-attitudes-toward-their-community/ ). I don’t care if your family played poker with George Washington and you’re the Pope’s right hand man; under that Constitution, you, me, and Richard Simmons are all guaranteed the same level of equality. Faith shouldn’t play any part of it. If you think religion is still an essential part to marriage today, you should be campaigning against letting atheists marry, you should be campaigning against divorce (which is actually disparaged much more than homosexuality in the Bible).
The genetics of homosexuality is pretty much a sealed deal: http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/rapidpdf/jandrol.110.012849v1
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/07/15/have-scientists-found-gay-gene/
Click to access policy-org-twins.pdf
I’ve given you quite a few links supporting my arguments. I challenge you to find any scientific studies that prove your beliefs, particularly your idea that all gays are focused on abusing children. Then you can come back and fully answer your original question — What specifically is the “gay agenda” taking away from you?
Joe,
I never said that all gays focus on children.
Scientific? The ‘Science’ behind homosexuality was dropped from their agenda after the famous ‘twins study’ did NOT produce an adequate support for genetic causality.
I supported that studies database. And I can tell you, researchers asked me to skew the data to make it ‘look like’ homosexuality was genetic.
Away from me?
As I have mentioned before, I have been assaulted. It is against my religion. And I study the data ….
According to the data, over 40 million Americans have bee the victims in your supposedly victimless agenda.
The agenda affords the perpetrators the freedom and the “cover” to be aggressors.
Will we agree that children have rights and need to be protected from aggressors?
Wayne
Rape was a common aspect of all marriages from Rome and Greece and continues today. Some of the boys may have been slaves, but it was still very much integrated within all castes. Even most of major philosophers we admire today took on their apprentices with this kind of relationship. I’m not going to argue that it was a great thing to do, but this at least shows that homosexuality has been a part of our civilization since it’s very beginning (with well over 1% of the population).
On to your next point: Holy shit. I thought I might have overreacted with my Nazi Germany comment, but now you’re trying to show how tolerant you are by pointing out that you’re not killing every gay person you see. Holy shit. Is that hard for you? Giving up your right to murder people? Ho. Lee. Shit. I hope I’m just interpreting your comment wrong.
No child should be seduced by any adult, and you’ll be hard-pressed to find a sane adult (regardless of sexual orientation) say otherwise. I’m sorry you had to go through that traumatic experience as a teenager. I can’t imagine how scary it must have been, and it’s probably not even fair for me to ask you to try and get over it. But you need to try and get over it. When I was beat up in school for the first time by a red-haired bully, I didn’t automatically assume that all red-haired kids were psychotic animals. I ended up making friends with many red-haired people, eventually even my bully. You also have to understand that rape isn’t confined solely to homosexuality. There are gay rapists, there are straight rapists, there are black rapists, there are white rapists, there are Christian rapists, there are atheist rapists.
I’m not qualified to explain the genetics of homosexuality or the arrested development brought on by traumatic events. I can only tell you that I’ve never felt any fear for my or others safety around my many gay friends and family.
I have gay friends, and I do not feel that ‘fear’ you think should be there around them.
Ironic.
Religion is important to me. And my Faith is protected by the Constitution.
The gay agenda is not.
My family was there at the founding.
There was not this huge percentage of gay population you claim there was.
That is a re-write of history by the new age historians. Just as they wrote my ancestors were not Christian ….
On that, watch “Monumental” that is about my family.
There are no genetics of homosexuality. There never have been.
30 years ago, the gay agenda said all they wanted was to not be arrested for what they did behind closed doors.
Then it was what they did in public.
Now it is to change the definition of marriage.
And our children are attacked more today (percentage of population).
When will children not have to pay the price?
That is not ‘fear,’ that is today’s reality.
Wayne
I think we’re using the word “propaganda” pretty loosely here. Modern Family’s a corny comedy. Of course, it’s not real, but it does reflect the ever-changing family dynamic in America. I encourage you again to try and have a real conversation with a real gay person.
I’m still confused on how you think your safety and freedom is being sacrificed when gays are allowed to marry. Gays abusing and indoctrinating children is a disgusting and archaic myth. The women thing. . . Geez, I really want to think you’re kidding with that. But on the off-chance that you really believe there’s less women out there for you because the gays are taking them all, consider the fact that the Earth’s population is now a staggering 7 billion. Fifty percent of those are all women and only about 10% of those are born gay. I won’t insult your intelligence any further than that.
Actually, the historic numbers for ‘gay’ births were always below 1%. Somewhere around 0.1%to 0.6% were usually discussed.
The recent surge? All because of an agenda.
It would be nice to surge agendas which are better for the majority than they are for small minorities.
Wouldn’t it?
And by “historic,” we’re presumably talking about statistics that go back about 100 years? Let’s forget about the fact that countless closeted gays throughout history would never come out for fear of public humiliation or death. Let’s look towards the very beginning of human civilization in the Roman Empire, where homosexuality was an accepted form of love for everyone, even among the burly, violent super-soldiers of Sparta. It really wasn’t until Christianity came and ruined the fun for everyone that we decided gays were icky and gross.
You keep using the word “agenda” to suggest some of your freedoms are being taken away, yet I still fail to see what you mean. When you offer your idea of majorities serving over minorities for the sake of the greater good, I can’t help but have images of Nazi Germany.
In my humble opinion.
Joe,
Great try. You argue better than most.
But, we start with different assumptions.
Outside of the Navaho, I know of NO people group who ever accepted the gay lifestyle.
Rome & Greece practiced homosexual rapes and initiations of little boys. The boys were slaves, or lower caste.
I am not asking to subjugate, nor imprison gays. My Religion demands we kill them. I am willing to give up some of my rights for the greater good.
But, there is a limit to the rights I want to give up.
I do not want a child to think being ‘seduced’ is a natural right for a gay man to express to a teenager.
That is an extremely dangerous phenomenon.
And since I had one try that on me as a teenager, I can tell you it is scary.
Creepy.
I said no, prayed to God for salvation, and he let go.
I thank God to this day, you don’t have to believe in God, but the man was TWICE my size.
Plenty of gay people are very religious. The Old Testament may have made some references to homosexuality, but there were just as strict punishments for getting a divorce and working on a Saturday. And aren’t you infringing on atheists’ religious freedom by implying that traditional Biblical marriage is the only way to go?
I’m sorry if some mean ol’ gays called you names or threw glitter on you. Imagine what that feels like when you’re an actual minority with thousands of years of cultural traditions against you. Gay teens are bullied to the point of suicide. Religious bigots aren’t disowned by their families or dragged behind trucks. And you must know that it isn’t just atheist homosexuals at the forefront of this “agenda.” Case in point, you are currently being harassed by a Jewish heterosexual.
And excuse me while I balk at the notion of violent gay activists. I am now balking. Rapists are monsters found in all sexualities. To suggest that gays use rape as a weapon against homophobes is both absurd and disgusting.
How are you paying taxes to support the gay agenda? Does your city have gay bridges and gay schools?
The historic roots of family involved arranged marriages, polygamy, and incest. Family is constantly evolving just as our culture evolves. Do you really believe a child is better off with no parents than with two dudes who could provide the same love and protection as any straight couple? Despite what you may have seen in a 1950s propaganda video, all gay couples do not abuse their children or raise them to be gay. They are just as happy, if not more so, when their children turn out to be straight.
Your comment about less single women has to be a joke, right? I’m tempted to think this entire post is satire, but that comment in particular is especially humorous.
Well, that was a lot longer than I meant it to be. In closing, try to expand your mind a little. Have some real conversations with some gays, watch an episode of Modern Family.
Joe, Modern Family is propaganda. It is not real.
So, is it ok to sacrifice the safety of children or myself for the agenda?
I hope you respect my disagreement on that.
You were clear about that, and so was the psychologist I spoke to a couple of weeks back.
But, freedom is never free. And if the cost is the freedom of others, how can you justify the exchange?
And about the women? It would be satirical, if it was not so sad.
Wayne
Thank you for your response.
I am not sure if I understood you. Are you saying I should just stand by and let the agenda hurt children?
Wayne
Yes.It should be this way.